Military Casualties During The Bill Clinton Administration
February 20, 2007
As I write this there have been about 3100 soldiers killed in Iraq fighting for and defending this country. This is from 2003 until now. I know this because we are constantly barraged with the death toll on the news every day. Can you image fighting WWII with the coverage as it is today?
Our enemy killed about the same number of us in one day on our soil, but sadly that has been forgotton.
Here is a list of how many US soldiers were killed when Bill Clinton was in office. We didn’t get constant death tolls the way we do now, so you probably haven’t seen these numbers before.
1993-1,245
1994-1,109
1995-1,055
1996-1,008
That is a total of 4,417 military deaths during the Clinton years.
77 Comments
leave one →
America's Watchtower 
I think it is unfortunate someone should be allowed to claim such garbage.
There is no information to support such accusations.
I do believe the information could be true, however, if so it is because
many military die in non combat years. Causes, suicide, accidents, homicides, botched surgeries. I mean come on for anyone to equate deaths in the Clinton years to that of Iraq is at the very least shameful and the very worst a criminal conspirator.
Clinton did not start an illegal war and the writer knows this.
Bob Lloyd
Ewa Beach, Hawaii
LikeLike
Clinton bombed Kosovo as well as Afghanistan. and his lovely wife supporter your illegal war before she turn coated against the troops like she was back in 1971. Classy argument to count dead bodies for political gain. Maybe you should also count the dead bodies that are much closer to King and Queen Clinton.
LikeLike
You will not have the mainstream media publish this information. Which is a shame to our service men and women serving in Iraq.
LikeLike
Clinton did not start an illegal war, but he was ready for it. Kuwait, Saudi and Egypt said no to an invasion of Iraq when Madleine Allbright toured those countries and try to convince them otherwise. Later, when the irresponsible idiot George “Dubya” Bush decided to invade, many democrats sided with him. Among those democrats pro-invasion were Bill and Hillary Clinton. She actually voted yes for the invasion without the US Congress approval.
LikeLike
He bob did you forget about Clinton’s unauthorized and illegal war in the Balkans? You know the, Balkans where thousands of Serbian civilians died from US bombs. Hey bob did you forget about Clinton’s unauthorized and illegal war in Somalia? You know Somalia, that’s where your boy Billy ran like a little bitch after 18 Rangers got killed. Hey bob did you forget about Clinton’s unauthorized and illegal war in Haiti? Hey bob did you forget about Clinton’s unauthorized and illegal bombing of a benign aspirin factory in Sudan? Hey bob did you forget about Clinton’s nine year, unauthorized and illegal bombing of Iraq? Hey bob did you forget about Clinton’s illegal and unauthorized bombing of Afghanistan? Hey bob STFU.
LikeLike
Source please
asprin factory ? hahah
riiiiiight
LikeLike
It is a fairly well known fact, look it up.
LikeLike
Petraeus’s Letter has ensured that America will lose this war. Therefore we might as well leave Iraq now.
I hated Clinton. But at least he knew how to fight a war as he did so quite effectively against Serbia. Of course none of our national interests were involved there like it is in Iraq. This defeat is going to really hurt us but Petraeus has ensured our defeat so I say might as well get out now since we are going to lose no matter how long we stay there.
LikeLike
Tony Blair is the one who convinced Clinton to send ground troops into the former Yugoslavia. He went on TV in Chicago in an interview with the Sun Times and called Billy out. Clinton only agreed to bombing at 15,000 ft until Blair proved it wasn’t working. It was only a few weeks after Blair had Billy call in the ground troops and then Kristic and Milosevic surrendered. Progressives always fund wars and they fund both sides. They’ve been working on a plan to dismantle Yugoslavia and they used the Muslim genocide as a tool for a UN HumanRights injection just like Soros is doing now. Those troops were supposed to be out of there in 2001 and they’re still there. Listen to what Eisenhower said about the MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX. It’s expansion is dangerour and it’s needs to be accounted for. Problem is, the bankers are in control of it and the majority are controlled by George Soros – Nazi sympathizer and a man who assisted in the exterminationof Jews. Soros hates Bush right? He not only gave McCain money for his Presidential Campaign but money towards his recent campaign. Now gee, why would he do that…oh, my bad they’re all Progressives who find the Constitution anti govt and a restriction of their powers a since money is no longer good enough for them!
LikeLike
“Hey bob STFU.” — 3 Ajnin
ditto that!
Looks like you have all the bases covered. Nice smack down.
LikeLike
The Balkans/Bosnia war was a NATO action . 43,000 NATO troops and 7,000 American troops. “ONE” US soilder was killed.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thank you for these numbers. I have put them on the sidebar of my Blog.
LikeLike
No problem. Isn’t it amazing how none of these numbers weren’t reported back then. I guess it isn’t.
I have added your blog to my blogroll.
LikeLike
hey sue, clinton also had a known enemy, bush is fighting against men, women and children with bombs strapped to their chest underneath a robe. Let me know when superman gets here with his X-Ray vision, will ya?
…..Get a clue
LikeLike
I hear that the number of military deaths during Bush’s two terms has already exceeded 10,000. We’re counting suicides, accidents, disease, homicides, surgical complications, overdoses, heart attacks, and of yes, the 4,000 killed in Iraq (assuming we lose our 4,000th soldier before the end of calendar year 2007).
LikeLike
I see a lot of facts in this posting and A lot of conjecture in the negative responses. That is the Liberal way–Fight facts with fiction. Hitler had a similar philosophy.
LikeLike
It’s the old saying Dennis, never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
LikeLike
I LIKE THAT SAYING MY MAMA HAD ALWAYS TOLD ME THAT WHEN GROWING UP AND I TEL MY FRIENDS THAT ALL THE TIME OR I SAY IN MY HEAD
LikeLike
The statistics made above are completely bogus. Please give me sources and statistics on “combat deaths” durring Somalia, Haiti, Kosovo. I don’t think you will even break 100.
Furthermore, calling these operations wars is laughable. They were police actions where the goal was trying to keep the peace. Which is now the same goal in Iraq; however, we created the instability, and now we are stuck. However, I fully support and wish for success in Iraq–if that requires more military action so be it.
And as a final note–It seems there are a lot of people out there that simply want things to fail because it was an action proposed by the opposing political party. I saw this with Clinton and I’m seeing it with Bush now. Grow up people. Get over your trivial issues with our Presidents. Quite crying about issues like abortion, gay rights, gun control, stem cells (the list of trivial issues go’s on and on). Seriously, who gives a darn about who’s running the show, I just wish for a positive outcome.
Time will only tell whether or not Iraq was a good idea. Right now we just need to make the best we can of it, because if we don’t, we will look like even bigger idiots.
LikeLike
Nowhere in my post did I say they were combat deaths, just the number of deaths that the military incurred while Bill Clinton was in office. My point being that we are at war, and while unfortunate it is a reality of war that people will die. I was just compairing how many military deaths there were during a time of relative peace compaired to how many have died during this war.
Every day we are subjected to the death toll, which is very low for a war of this duration, so I just wanted to point out that the military deaths of this war aren’t that much greater than the military deaths incurred under Clinto during peace times.
LikeLike
I would be curious to see the number of casualites, whether related to hostile or nonhostile for both administrations. Comparing the number of war-related deaths only to the total number of deaths for Clinton’s administration isn’t really looking at the whole story. Believe me, I do not like Clinton, but I’d like see a total on these casualties before comparing them.
LikeLike
It’s OK to quote statistics, polls, comments ad-infinitum about the Iraq war. The cold, hard thing is that it continues as a blood-bath with no real target in it’s sights. The Muslims simply want anyone they disagree with, DEAD!! (In the name of their god).
When the “all we need is love” crowd accepts this and realizes that the US in not the bad guy in this world and sees that as we run away from this conflict more and more civilians in this country will be strewn in pieces in malls and on the streets because of crazy men and women who strap on sticks of explosives and blow themselves to smithereens all in the name of Allah.
When the Bush hater-Clinton lovers stop their adoration of the sleezebag Hillary (who, while denouncing everyone in the republican party as being immoral, maintains her fake relationship with a man who was an adulterer, sex-pervert, thief, liar, perjurer and whoa, only the second president in our history to be impeached by his peers) and wake up to reality that if and when she gets the reins of this country, we’ll see all that is left of our society go down the toilet with one grat big flush.
LikeLike
Hey Bob,
Peace-keeping missions, dumbass. Bill Clinton cut this military in half, and then sent them to Somalia, Kosovo, Bosnia, Haiti. Remember Black Hawk Down???? Okay, you’re point has now been blown out of the water. Please look up your FACTS before making accusations……
LikeLike
The figures are approximately correct – but misleading.
Click to access RL32492.pdf
You cited – not hostile deaths, but total military deaths out of an average 1.5 million men serving each year. Almost all were accidents, illness, or suicides.
About 2.3 million American civilians per year died from various causes during the Clinton years – should we count these as well?
A more accurate count for Clinton is:
Haiti – 0 (+ non-hostile – 4); Somalia – 29 (+ non-hostile – 14)
Kosovo – 1
Are you are trying to convince us you weren’t purposely being misleading?
LikeLike
Joe, I’m glad you chimed in, as I was on a fact finding mission to compare two, and couldn’t believe that the posters were actually buying into this as a meaningful statistic.
Let’s go and get numbers of total military deaths from the last 8 years and see where we are then.
Logic does not apply in this country any longer. It has gone out the window. On BOTH sides.
LikeLike
LOGIC is the One thing that although he claimed to have studied ( musta have failed the course) is really lost on Reid and his constant lack of understanding that when discussing the Agriculture Bill he needs not to discuss Iraq and his Fixation on Losing… Only CNN, and that other Useless network of “hate” ( msnbc)misinformation are fixated on American Casualties Numbers…
POINT IS THAT;
They attacked us and we are at war… and America has not been attacked..
Conversely the Failed Tuck the tail and Whine Policies of Bubba gave us Multiple attacks on Domestic as well as on Foreign Soil to American Lives and Property Culminating in 9/11… is this another reason for not revealing the “Secret papers” and the Sandy Burgles Pant hose raid?? .. and is that the Experience that they claim “she’ has???? .. Logic ain’t Present after all is it????
LikeLike
War is not a partisan issue, and it’s sickening to hear Americans make it one. I had an Army Command Sergeant Major tell me once, on the occasion of his retirement from Active Duty, “In wartime, you’re the best thing since sliced bread. In peacetime you’re a piece of shit.” This was the observation of a man who retired in 1994 after 30 years service to the nation under Commanders in Chief from both major American political parties. He did not delineate treatment of the military under either party as better or worse. He was making a comment on the American peoples’ attitude toward the military in peace and war.
Don’t use political affiliation as a determining factor when deciding the validity of this war or that. Ask only two questions. 1) Was the war waged as an absolute last resort after diplomacy had been tried, tried again, and tried yet further. 2) Did the reasons given by our government for going to war survive intact throughout the conflict.
LikeLike
Here are annual fatalities of military members while actively serving in the armed forces from 1980 through 2006:
1980 …………2,392
1981 …………2,380
1984 ………..1,999
1988 ………..1,819
1989 ………..1,636
1990 ………..1,508
1991 ………..1,787
1992 ………..1,293
1993 ………..1,213
1994 ………..1,075
1995 ………..2,465
1996 ……….2,318 Clinton years @14,000 deaths
1997 …………..817
1998 ………..2,252
1999 ………..1,984
2000 ………..1,983
2001 …………..890
2002 ………..1,007
2003 ………..1,410
2004 ………..1,887
2005 …………..919
2006……………920
If you are confused when you look at these figures…so was I.
Do these figures mean that the loss from the two latest conflicts in the Middle East are LESS than the loss of military personnel during Mr. Clinton’s presidency; when America wasn’t even involved in a war? And, I was even more confused; when I read that in 1980, during the reign of President (Nobel Peace Prize) Jimmy Carter, there were 2,392 US military fatalities!
These figures indicate that many of our Media & Politicians will pick and choose. They present only those reporting. Why do so many of them march in lock-step to twist the truth. Where do so many of them get their marching-orders for their agenda?
Our Mainstream Print and TV media, and many Politicians like to slant; that these brave men and women, who are losing their lives in Iraq , are mostly minorities! Wrong AGAIN— just one more media lie! The latest census, of Americans, shows the following distribution of American citizens, by Race:
European descent (White) ………….69.12%
Hispanic …………………………………….12.50%
Black…………………………………………..12.30%
Asian ……………………………………………3.70%
Native American …………………………..1.00%
Other ……………………………………………2.60%
Now here are the fatalities by Race; over the past three years in Operation Iraqi Freedom:
European descent (white) ………. 74.31%
Hispanic ………………………………… 10.74%
Black …………………………………………9.67%
Asian ………………………………… ……1.81%
Native American ………………………..1.09%
Other …………………………………………0.33%
You do the Math! These figures don’t lie… but, Media-liars figure…and they sway public opinion! These statistics are published by Congressional Research Service, and they may be confirmed by anyone at:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf )
Now ask yourself these two questions:
Why does the mainstream Print and TV Media never print statistics like these?
And why do we have to find out this information on the web?
LikeLike
I’m so glad I found this. I’m 24 and a majority of people my age just watch TV and see all the liberal media. They never see this stuff. I’m a big myspacer and I’m really growing tired of people slandering Bush’s name.
LikeLike
It appears that the military casualties during the Clinton years, though we were not at war, are comparable to those during the Bush Administration.
Why would there be that many more deaths caused by accidents, etc. during the Clinton years to offset those attributed to war during the Bush era? (I am assuming the stated numbers are correct.) Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
LikeLike
I was in the military during the Clinton years. I noticed that every time he took a dip in the polls or had something bad happen politically, he sent the military somewhere to bomb or shoot someone. Until Somalia backfired on him. We took some casualties there and it was a media feeding frenzy and then whooosh….America was gone from Somalia.
I get so tired of liberal, defeatest Democrats that whine on and on and on about how bad the war in Iraq is.
LikeLike
Bush got congressional authorization for Operation Iraqi Freedom including Hillary’s vote.
Clinton launched attack on Serbia without Congrssional authorization or UN mandate.
He wanted to show that NATO was still relevant and had a role to play even though Russia was no longer a threat. Thousands of innocent Serbian civilians died in this military propaganda show.
LikeLike
Bush got congressional authorization when he launched Operation Iraqi Freedom including Hillary’s vote.
Clinton launched attack on Serbia with no authoriztion nor a mandate from the UN.
At the end of Cold War, he wanted to show that NATO was still relevant though Russia wasno longer a threat. It was a propaganda display of our military might.
LikeLike
I just got an email from a liberal friend (?) responding to a comment I made about the casualties during the Clinton admin. She said that Rush quoted misinformation. All I know is from my perspective as a citizen of El Paso, the 4-1 CAV lost plenty of soldiers during Clinton’s reign. A death is a death. When you pledge to serve and protect, who cares if the death is natural, accidental or through combat. These brave young women and men deserve our respect and honor. They put their lives on the line every day. In El Paso, when we see a person in fatigues, we say, ” Thank you for serving our country.” And you know what? We actually mean it.
LikeLike
Don’t forget reagon when 41 marines were killed he ran like a chicken hawak
LikeLike
All:
Shirley’s figures are totally bogus. She’s padded the deaths during Democratic administrations and subtracted during Republican administrations to the tune of thousands and thousands, shifting, adding deaths–using these heroes as pawns in her partisan game.
Go to the Congressial Research Service document cited by her (http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf ), Table 4, page 7, you will see these actual shown below.
I’ve copied the whole thing: the last figure in each column is the total deaths.
But don’t believe me: go to the document and see for yourselves.
CRS-7
Table 4. U.S. Active Duty Military Deaths, 1980 Through 2006,
Part I, Total Military Personnel
Calendar
Year ActiveDutya Full-Time (est.)Guard-Reserve
Selected
Reserve
FTEb
Total
Military
FTE
Total
Deaths
1980 2,050,758 22,000 86,872 2,159,630 2,392
1981 2,093,032 22,000 91,719 2,206,751 2,380
1982 2,112,609 41,000 97,458 2,251,067 2,319
1983 2,123,909 49,000 100,455 2,273,364 2,465
1984 2,138,339 55,000 104,583 2,297,922 1,999
1985 2,150,379 64,000 108,806 2,323,185 2,252
1986 2,177,845 69,000 113,010 2,359,855 1,984
1987 2,166,611 71,000 115,086 2,352,697 1,983
1988 2,121,659 72,000 115,836 2,309,495 1,819
1989 2,112,128 74,200 117,056 2,303,384 1,636
1990 2,046,806 74,250 137,268 2,258,324 1,507
1991 1,943,937 70,250 184,002 2,198,189 1,787
1992 1,773,996 67,850 111,491 1,953,337 1,293
1993 1,675,269 68,500 105,768 1,849,537 1,213
1994 1,581,649 65,000 99,833 1,746,482 1,075
1995 1,502,343 65,000 94,585 1,661,928 1,040
1996 1,456,266 65,000 92,409 1,613,310 974
1997 1,418,773 65,000 94,609 1,578,382 817
1998 1,381,034 65,000 92,536 1,538,570 827
1999 1,367,838 65,000 93,104 1,525,942 796
2000 1,372,352 65,000 93,078 1,530,430 758
2001 1,384,812 65,000 102,284 1,552,196 891
2002 1,411,200 66,000 149,942 1,627,142 999
2003 1,423,348 66,000 243,284 1,732,632 1,228
2004 1,411,287 66,000 234,629 1,711,916 1,874
2005 1,378,014 66,000 220,000 1,664,014 1,942
2006 1,378,014 66,000 220,000 1,664,014 1,858
Source: Defense Manpower Data Center, Statistical Information Analysis
Division,
LikeLike
Thanks for posting the real data. Shirley, why did you change the numbers?
LikeLike
Be careful who you read – it seemed odd to me that so many LESS people would be dieing in the military since we went to war (regardless of whether you wanted us to go to war in Iraq or not that just simply seems counter-intuitive).
I had the numbers from an earlier post emailed to me and was very interested because they seemed so detailed and researched which I mistakenly assumed meant they were credible.
Then, I noticed two diferent versions of the same numbers for a couple of the years in two of the posts above so I decided to check the table they both cite.
SURPRISE, SURPRISE the table they are supposedly citing has COMPLETELY different numbers which don’t support what they are saying at all.
The TOTAL deaths in the military for all 8 of the Clinton years was 7,500. The total numer in 6 years of the current Bush administration was 8,792. (According to your sources, I don’t know that these are accurate or not but it looks like a credible document).
The rates on Suicide, Accidents, Illness, etc are all pretty much so in line with the last half of the Clinton administration – when the size of the military had already been reduced. The big difference? 2,596 deaths from Hostile Action and 238 still pending investigation. In other words the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
Now I’m not saying anything about whether the Afghanistan and Iraq wars are good, bad or indiferent. Ones opinoin of them is irrelevent to the FACTS behind how many people have died in the military while those wars have been waged.
As for the news media – if this line of bunk had been true, we would have heard about it at least from one of the conservative media outlets like FOX which I watch all the time.
As for the media not doing their jobs by not reporting the deaths – there was EXTENSIVE reporting of the 75 deaths from Terrorist attacks and 1 death from Hostile Action during the Clinton years, as there were the 55 from terrorist attacks in 2001 under George Bush, the 293 from terrorist attacks under Reagan – (Beriut), and 1 from terrorist attacks under George Bush Sr.
Of course the news media doesn’t report about every single accident that happens in the military outside of conflict, just like they don’t report about every death in a car crash, or every case of cancer, or every suicide. That isn’t a liberal bias it simply is a matter of our having a very large military which sees deaths every single day in peace or war. All those who serve in the military deserve our gratitude, but those who die fighting for their country deserve a special place in our hearts and warrant the extra attention – whether you are a liberal crack-pot, or right wing zealot or like most of use, somewhere in between.
To those of you who are pushing this deliberate misinformation – Why you would deliberately change the numbers about honrorable men and women serving in our military and how they DIED, to trick people into believing something that serves YOUR agenda is unknown to me but whatever your motivation it is evil, it dishonors the memory of all those who have fought and died for our freedoms and you should be ashamed of yourselves. You are no Patriots.
LikeLike
A list of numbers without putting in the source means nothing.List your soudce so we can check your information.
LikeLike
I’m late to this blog, but after reading all these posts and all this continuous blathering–those which spoke most deeply to me and so “right on” were the following:
Ron Simpson’s post of 11/29/07
Becky Downey’s post of 11/7/07 and
Kip’s of 11/7/07
No bullshit, just truth from the heart. I LOVE IT!! That’s real Americans speaking there, folks. Keep up the plain, simple truths that you are sharing. They matter.
LikeLike
Your military-losses-1980 is pure propaganda
You can read all about this ruse here.
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_military_deaths.htm
LikeLike
It was Bush the first that sent us to Somalia. Aug of 1992, 5 months before Clinton took office. You can argue all you want about Clinton’s handling of the mess Bush One handed to him, but don’t say it was Clinton that sent us there. When you do, you’re either lying or just too lazy to look it up.
LikeLike
Just wondering where you got your statistics?
LikeLike
Michael (jan 20, 08),
You are SO right! I also couldn’t believe the numbers and did a little investigating as well. The website these numbers are taken from is http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf and the numbers have been changed in this post to suit (fill in the blanks). I urge everyone to research these facts; as these altered statistics were actually sent to me in a private email; so they are obviously being cut and pasted into everyone’s political agenda., Do your HOMEWORK; folks. It is totally irresponsible to forward emails without verifying the source or content!
LikeLike
You are comparing “all deaths” during the Clinton years and only Iraq deaths during Bush term.
LikeLike
I think we have lost the real focus. While we sit here bickering about numbers. Keep in mind that each one of those “numbers” is a life. A son, daughter, mother, father, brother, sister, cousin, Aunt, uncle, and a friend. Wether you agree with the war or not, doesn’t change the fact that we are there.
The success of our troops depends largely on what happens here at home. Believe it or not, many of our troops do have access to US media. Put yourself in their shoes for a moment, and think about it. How would you feel, if all you were was a statistic? They recognize that their job puts them at the greatest risk. Keep in mind it is a risk they volunteer for. The US military is the elite military force in the world because it is voluntary enlistment.
They have a cause. They fight for freedom, they fight for you, for me, for every man, woman, and child that desires the freedoms that all men should be entitled to. Some fight for other reasons as well. I know a few soldiers that fight because they want to carry on a family tradition; thats fine too.
My point is this, when those brave men and women put in their hours, the last then they want to see is their fallen comrads being the source of a political debate which is only trying to prove who is right or wrong. When will we be able to unite behind a cause again, like the day we lost 3000 civilians on our own soil, that day 7 years ago.
Often times wars are won when one side loses morale. Usually that loss of morale is brought upon by the other side showing superiority in battle. That is not the case here. The US can easily win the battles in Iraq. If you have been paying attention to military tech, you would probably notice this. The US is however suffering from a loss of morale, and what is sad, is its not Al Qaida, or Hamas, or the other terrorist orginizations, its us. Its us! If we lose this battle, we only have ourselves to blame. I have to hand it to those soliders to still even concider fighting, after some of the things said here at home. But then again, thats why they fight. Because they are stronger than most of us could ever even comprehend.
Something else we should concider is how we phrase what is going on in Iraq and the rest of the middle east right now. I refere to it as a battle over a war. The war that President Bush declared, is over. That ended when Sadam Hussein was captured, and the government was overthrown. We are now fighting a war that Bush didnt start, clinton didnt start, Bush Sr, didnt start, nor did any of the other presidents start. THe war on terrorism has been going on for thousands of years. They United States is just the most recent addition to the cause to end terrorism. So I ask that we refrain from placing blame on people for something that we really have no reason to blame. I understand people are upset about the circumstances, but thats war. We can pull out of Iraq, but that wont end the war on terrorism. That will certainly stop the troops death tole from rising…..at least for a while. There is no guarantee that we won’t just end up right back there again, or somewhere else, and the numbers will come right back up. We need to think about the long term here. What will our actions now, do for the future.
I tried my best to be unbias here, though I do have my oppinions, but at the time, my opinion really doesn’t matter in a situation this big. One man’s opinion may ask for change, another mans opinion will ask for consitance. What ever your opinion is, stick with it, as its not wrong. There is no wrong opinion.
Sorry this was so long but I am really just getting sick of the division we have within this country. So what if someone is liberal, or conservative. So what if someone likes Bush and someone doesn’t. In the end, whats it matter if you like him or not? I’m for the troops, and only the troops. They know the truth. Lets listen to them for once.
LikeLike
All of this just proves to me you can’t trust the media, blogs or the canidates. You have to research things your self and form your own opionion. It is so easy to distort or spin things to prove your point but there is nothing more solid then FACTS.
LikeLike
Michael, I hope you aren’t implying I posted incorrect numbers. I copied the table directly from the federal document and gave the web address and invited people to see for themselves. Those are the numbers. I was correcting Shirley’s doctoring of the numbers. Facts do matter.
LikeLike
We’ve forgotten the reason for the ‘police action’ in Iraq was because of the United Nations resolution 1441 and to get Saddam.
What’s happened since has little to do with this discussion.
BTW; about as many deaths by gun fire happen in Detroit every month as does U.S. deaths in Iraq. That’s just one city.
There, in my opinion, has never been a war against Iraq. But, there is a war against terroism just as there is a war against drugs.
As far as stirring up a stink in the middle east, that’s been going on for 3000 yrs.
LikeLike
You Republicans are amazing. You try to compare Bush, the man with the lowest IQ we have ever had in the White House, with Bill Clinton, the man with the highest. Perhaps that is because he speaks to your level of intelligence. Wouldn’t you prefer a president who speaks in full sentences. His intent was to go into Iraq long before the Christian Coalition put him in office. 40 million good, God-fearing Christians, who could care less about how many people he sends to their deaths, or whether or not he destroys our country, put him into office because he opposed abortion. You don’t care that there is a police record in which Laura had him arrested for getting drunk and beating her up. You don’t care that we have lost all credibility around the world, and that we are the laughing stock of all the countries that used to respect us. You only care that he is anti-abortion. It’s people like you who will probably get him a third term, through his surrogate, John McCain. God Help America.
LikeLike
People’s memories are amazing. Recall all the times we were attacked during the Clinton Admin. The USS Cole, the Embassy bombings, just name a few. Clinton knew it was Obama so why didn’t he do more to get him? Now everyone wants to either forget about 9/11 and/or blame Bush for 9/11. No one wants to talk about how Clinton cut back on our military. So 10 1/2 months into Bush’s admin we get bombed. Unfortunately we had been weakened militarily by Clinton. I wonder if we would still be in Iraq had Clinton not damaged the morale of the military and made so many cutbacks. I find with Dems that I know, they have very little respect for the military. I find it shameful and embarrassing! Every single military officer should be thanked everywhere they go! Next time you see one – you ought to wake up and shake their hand. It’s because of them that you even have the countless freedoms available to us today. Shake their hands! I do and so does my 6 year old son. Do you?
LikeLike
I meant Osama, not Obama. Obama’s name is everywhere – a totally honest error.
LikeLike
We won’t hold that slip against you, after all even Ted Kennedy made the same mistake. 🙂
LikeLike
It is not only important to get the loss of life correct, but it is important to measure as a per cent of the total military. Looking back at the correct published numbers (www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/rl32492.pdf) as cited above – NOT IN SHIRLEY’S BOGUS MISPRINT – one can see that as a percent the current losses are higher than during previous administrations. That site breaks it down as a ration per 100k troops. The interesting thing to me is what has changed since 1990 to reduce the accident rate? I heard someone suggest drink/driving reductions – just curious if anyone has any insinghts.
LikeLike
You people talk about this so-called liberal media. That is a figment of your overly paranoid imaginations. There is no such thing. The mainstream media is opportunistic. They will report anything that will increase ratings. The fringe right-wing media, on the other hand, only reports distorted information that helps their agenda. I bet a friend of mine $100. that if I turned on that liar Limbaugh, I would catch him lying within one minute of me tuning in. Thankfully it only took eight seconds. Having to endure that bafoon for a full minute would have made me extremely ill.
LikeLike
Bush is giving up golf to morn the American dead
LikeLike
AS A VIETNAM VET, ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT THE LIBERAL MEDIA AND DEMOCRATIC HOUSE LOST OUR WAR! ALONG WITH HANOI JANE, AND THE REST OF THE LIB CRAP FROM HOLLYWOOD. LIBS ARE JUST A BUNCH OF WHINING TRASH, THAT HAVE NO OTHER PUPOSE IN LIFE, OTHER THAN TO RUN THEIR BIG YAPPERS AND TO GET ON T.V.. THEY HATE AMERICA AND HAVE THE SPINAL COLUMN OF A JELLY FISH. THEY WILL BE THE DOWNFALL OF THIS GREAT NATION, IT’S ALWAYS “ME, ME, ME, ME,”! THEY ARE THE LEECHES OF AMERICAN SOCIETY AND CONTRIBUTE NOTHING IN THEIR QUEST FOR NOTORIETY. THEY WILL STOP AT NOTHING TO HAVE THEIR FOOLISH NAMES IN PRINT OR THEIR FACES TELEVISED FOR THEIR LIBERAL PRESS. WHAT A BUNCH OF PUTRID FECAL MATTER THESE PEOPLE ARE. THEY SICKEN ME AND I HOPE SOMEDAY THEY WILL SHACKELED AND TORTURED IN THE MANNER MILLIONS OF OTHER OPPRESSED PEOPLES IN THIS WORLD. BECAUSE ONLY THEN WILL THEY UNDERSTAND THE POWER OF A STRONG MILITARY AND COMPASSIONATE NATION THAT IS THE U.S.A.. SO TAKE YOUR FACTS AND FIGURES AND SHOVE THEM WHERE THE SUN DON’T SHINE MR. AND MRS. LIB. AND LET US STRONG VIGILANT AMERCANS WHO PROTECT YOUR SORRY ASSES, GO ON ABOUT OUR LIVES WITHOUT HEARING YOUR WHINNING ABOUT WHAT KILLERS WE ARE! YOU ARE IN A MINORITY, AND WE DON’T CARE ABOUT YOU AT ALL! JUST SHUT UP AND GO AWAY, WE’LL CLEAN UP THE MESS YOU SEEM TO ALWAYS GET US IN…………..SORRY WORTHLESS BASTARDS……SHEESH!
LikeLike
Thank you for your service!
LikeLike
The problem with our country today is that the political parties have become our gods. We have no shortage of proaganda and constituents on both sides willing to drink the kool-aide. This whole discussion is meaningless. The fact is that we’re in Iraq fighting a war. At this point it doesn’t matter how we got there except that it we can learn from it for future reference. What matters now is how do we correct the mistakes we’ve made to this point and leave the region secure and not vulnerable to take over by Iran and made truely into a terrorist state. Pulling out is as stupid as the way the war has been handled up until this last year. I like what Patton had to say about war. “The idea is not to die for your country. The idea is to make the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.” I think we should start with Moqtada Al Sadre. What do you think?
LikeLike
This has been an interesting blog. I am always amazed at how people get very fired up the more the discussion goes on. We can’t even blog our opinion without someone slamming us or calling names.
One person here did enrage me though, so now I am part of my own complaint..
Gary Ciampi, on April 11th, 2008 at 10:45 am Said:
You Republicans are amazing.
This is unfair and just not true. I voted for Bush twice and I am neither a christian coalition member or care about abortion. I don’t think abortion should even be in politics.
It is crazy to compare IQs of presidents, especially here because there is no documentation. Only opinion. I have never seen a police record on Bush, but I know of a very public document called IMPEACHMENT and I also know of public documents of payment to Paula Jones for $850,000 t shut her up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton
So let’s not pick sides based on party… it is always a lost cause. I hated Clinton and he won twice, but I never advocated his death and never referred to him as dumb, even though his obvious actions appeared to be. Bush haters continue to plot his death, make untruthful comments, etc and the man just keeps moving forward with everything he said he would do.
An like the middle east, the parties will never agree on core principle. Muslims hate Jews and anyone that protects them (US)… nothing in our history says that will ever change.
LikeLike
Bill, you do summarize the difference between the left and the right rather well when you wrote about Clinton and Bush and the hatred that is levied at Bush compaired to that of Clinton. I know you wanted to stay above party politics, but you did illustrate a glaring difference between liberal and conservatives. Conservatives want to beat liberals politically, liberal want to beat conservatives literally.
LikeLike
Bill, you forgot to mention Jim on may 17th. It is always a shame when seemingly otherwise intellegent people get so consumed with idealogical hate mongering that they can no longer think for themselves. Instead they regergitate the propaganda of their particular idealog, which in most cases has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. If you can’t defend your position, change the subject. That is why I find it so furstrating to talk to my liberal friends. When the discussion turns to politics they turn into political automatons. It is a real Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde transformation. And I seriously doubt if there ever was a bet with Jim to catch Limbaugh lying…….But it coulda happened that way! Whatever. As for the topic at hand, stats can be manipulated to mean whatever you want them to. I don’t think the death tolls in each administration is as important as the point that is illustrated because of the conversation it has spawned; which is, the hypocrisy of the left. Not a word was said about any of the conflicts Clinton involved us in or the way any of them were handled. A perfect example of this type hypocrisy is the big deal being made over the firing of the 8 of U.S. attorneys as is aptly made apparent in this cover of that situation. “The broadcast network evening newscasts, which didn’t care in 1993 about the Clinton administration’s decision to ask for the resignation of all 93 U.S. attorneys, went apoplectic Tuesday night in leading with the “controversy,” fed by the media, over the Bush administration for replacing eight U.S. attorneys in late 2006 — nearly two years after rejecting the idea of following the Clinton policy of replacing all the attorneys.” The bottom line is, the Democrats are bullies and the Republicans are pussies. What’s a conservative to do?
LikeLike
From Wikipedia article on U.S. Attorneys dismissal controversy
“Dismissal of U.S. Attorneys under previous administrations
By tradition, U.S. Attorneys are replaced only at the start of a new White House administration. U.S. Attorneys hold a “political” office, and therefore they are considered to “serve at the pleasure of the President.” At the beginning of a new presidential administration, it is traditional for all 93 U.S. Attorneys to submit a letter of resignation. When a new President is from a different political party, almost all of the resignations will be eventually accepted.[68] The attorneys are then replaced by new political appointees, typically from the new President’s party.[69][70][69]
A Department of Justice list noted that “in 1981, Reagan’s first year in office, 71 of 93 districts had new U.S. attorneys. In 1993, Clinton’s first year, 80 of 93 districts had new U.S. attorneys.” Similarly, a Senate study noted that “Reagan replaced 89 of the 93 U.S. attorneys in his first two years in office. President Clinton had 89 new U.S. attorneys in his first two years, and President Bush had 88 new U.S. attorneys in his first two years.”[71]
In contrast to the 2006 dismissals, Presidents rarely dismiss U.S. attorneys they appoint.[69][70] Kyle Sampson, Chief of Staff at the Department of Justice, noted in a January 9, 2006, e-mail to Harriet Miers: “In recent memory, during the Reagan and Clinton Administrations, Presidents Reagan and Clinton did not seek to remove and replace U.S. Attorneys they had appointed, but instead permitted such U.S. Attorneys to serve indefinitely under the holdover provision” (underlining original).[72] There is no precedent for a President to dismiss several U.S attorneys at one time while in the middle period of the presidential term in office.[73][74]
The few examples of forced dismissals available are based on misconduct. “
LikeLike
Just a quick fact: the U.S. became the 99th member to sign the UN Genocide Treaty in 1988 and by doing that, we promised to aid in genocides around the world. Saddam was committing a genocide against the Turks in nothern Iraq. Here are some other of Saddam’s numbers:
Killed 40 of his own relatives
between 150,000-340,000 Iraqis died in Iraq/Iran War
between 450,000-730,000 Iranians in Iraq/Iran War
killed 85,000-165,000 Kurds
destroyed 2,040 Kurdish villages
killed 1,000 Kuwaitis
displaced 900,000 Iraqis
His government was invovled in the assassination attempt of Bush One in 1993
I don’t see a lack of reason to declare war on Saddam ( as we did, not on Iraq) and, as a previous blogger mentioned, Bush did receive the okay from Congress, I’m not seeing the grounds on which protestors stand to oppose this war.
LikeLike
Does anybody know how many soldiers have been killed during the Bush administration that are non-combat related and have had no role in the Afghan or Iraq war. I would assume it’s similar to the Clinton administration but I have no idea.
LikeLike
Does anybody know how many people die every year in car accidents and other kinds of accients? Much more than in Iraq. Anybody talking about this?
LikeLike
The one and only true, Sovereign God Who created man and this earth. The one and only God who sent His son to die for all of our sins, He gave man free will
God IS Sovereign He knows whether our intentions are good or bad. Even the best intentions have the worst consequences. Only God knows the future put your faith in Him. Mrs. Pink Eyes
LikeLike
The initial article alludes to the comparison of casualties during the clinton candidacy with the deaths of soldiers killed in duty in Iraq now. This is not the whole picture and therefore we can not have a whole and honest conversation with this information.
After reading the whole thread I have something to say to anyone who reads this:
Remember we are still a very new country (all of us here). If we want to succeed in the very near future… We must not lie to OURSELVES. These conversations and debates are necessary but on every site I see so much cruelty to adverse view points. Each of us in our hearts knows the real truth is that which brings love as the final result… love for one’s self and for our sisters and brothers in the world around us.
Sometimes, War is necessary. Is this that time? Does the onset and outcome of this war bring truth and love and joy into our futures and the futures of the people involved in this conflict on both continents? Ask yourself that before you decide something is right or wrong.
I see us hating each other in THIS country. This is the wrong direction for us. Someone above called someone else “dumbass” and unless this brought that individual peace in his/her heart not only was it a put down to the person he directed that statement at but it was a put down of his-own-self.
Spend one day & look for the truth in your hearts. Be open for one day to the ideas of someone else. Look at the picture from the other side… LOOK FOR THE WHOLE PICTURE then get back to me. Tell me off if you like. I know my truth. I won’t bother you with it here as I see you all have a well rounded conversation going here already.
I’ll end with this.
Debate is good-for-you.
Hate is bad-for-you.
LikeLike
I’m comin’ to get ya mother fucker.
LikeLike
The major point that seems to shout out to me is that taking an offensive approach to terrorism has put the terrorist on defense. I think we all benefit by having our trained military taking the attack to terrorist instead of innocent civilians waiting around for the next attack. Each president had a different approach. Maybe each was appropriate for the time. The real question is what is the next president’s approach?
I for one want to be on offense against the planners and not on defense after the damage is done. Remember the first World Trade Center bombing, if planned better, would have killed more than the second bombing. Being on defense we gave the terrorist an opportunity to maintain their offense. That has not been true since.
LikeLike
When The Artful Draft Dodger “Bubba” was in office,30% of our military living on our bases here and abroad,were living below poverty level.They were on food stamps and other sussidies.How special!Why do you think that our military personnel used to make cat calls at Slick Willy?Because he`s a big puss,that`s why.All of his “channel surfing” deployment of our military to cover his weakness and ignorance was patheitc and embarrassing.The world was getting a good laugh.Clinton had multiple chances to deal with Bin Laden during his tenure but didn`t have the spine to do it.He never even went down to take a look at the first attempt on the World Trade Center in 1993,He treated it like a police matter.How strong of him!When he offered Bin Laden to the Saudis,they refused to take him.Instead,ole` Willy Boy got a big donation to his “library”.You have to be able to produce what you offer up,don`t you?When asked what his greatest regret was while he was in office,President Regan replied: “I regret not taking action when our men and women were murdered in Beruit.”At least he had the guts to admit his faults,that`s more more than can be said for the coward from Arkansas.
LikeLike
I served in both Bosnia late October 95 to May of 96 and also in Kosovo from February to December of 99. My primary MOS was 19D, and I was B4 designate. For those of you who have no military experience that translates to Armored Reconnaisance Specialist (Cavalry Scout) and sniper qualified. In both conflicts men were KIA to hostile fire, but because of how the conflicts were designated and the locations that the soldiers were killed, their deaths were not classified as combat casualties. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. I’ve been in countries and areas we were not supposed to be operating in and had friends die…some of which were at the hands of muslim extremist who only months before we were supplying weapons to. (KLA). Facts are simple…during Clinton our military was used as a police force and had its hands tied as to roe, numbers were played with, and the media while being allowed access, were for the most part, sequestered to non-forward operating areas. During bush’s years, our military has operated as a combat force and the media has unfettered access. I never spoke poorly of Clinton when he was my commander and Chief, as a good soldier should bite his tongue and do his duty. But truly I tell you I was disgusted to serve under Pres. Clinton and ashamed of actions we performed that were not and still have not come to the light of day.
LikeLike
Another statistic to consider is the number of genocides of peoples and races that these police actions, wars, or whatever we want to designate them as, have increased or decreased. Last count, the Kurd population has not been completely erased. The last terrorist attack on our native soil from a foreign entity was more than 7 years ago. Either we stand behind our brave military men and women or we stand in front of them.
LikeLike
It’s amazing what stand everyone has taken. Stop arguing about what was and pay attention to what IS. We have the devil that will soon be our president. What’s going to happen to our fighting men and women now? Do you really think that the United States is going to be safe when he’s sworn in? Be afraid. I am. And furious.
LikeLike
I have read the first few posts and then started to skim after that. Forgive me if this information has already presented its self. The intel everyone is looking for is on this page:
http://siadapp.dmdc.osd.mil/personnel/CASUALTY/castop.htm
Maybe I’m just a suspicious old man, but if the address isn’t a .mil site, I don’t trust it. So the numbers are as follows… 1993-2000 (Clinton) 7,500 US Active Duty Military deaths, including activated reservists. These are not all combat deaths mind you. As a comparison, 2001-2007 (Bush, 2008 not yet compiled) 10,871. Please feel free to check my math against this spread sheet:
Click to access Death_Rates.pdf
I’m not trying to debate right or wrong for either presidency, though I do have my own opinions of that. I just want everyone looking over the actual numbers. Something everyone may want to think about here. The US military is always deployed, it doesn’t matter who’s sitting in the big chair, and that’s what we signed up for. Right now there isn’t a single soldier in our military who didn’t sign up or renew his contract after our country went to war. We are soldiers. No one would expect a firefighter to train to do his job and then get up in arms when is called to fight a fire. We train to fight on behalf of our country. Where my country calls me I will go, and I will serve her proudly. I don’t ask anyone to bring us home; I want to do my job, and I understand that it takes me away from my wife and children every time I do. All I ever ask that you pray we all come home safely when the job is finished. Thank you to all who serve with me on the battle field, in the skies, or on the seas.
-a U.S. Infantry Soldier
LikeLike
I was just searching for information regarding the cost of the Iraq war and wondering about the cost of Clinton’s unilateral incursion into Serbia and Kosovo to make them safe for the KLA. And then there was the actual cost of saving Haiti from just one of their many corrupt leaders. There is an awful lot of material about the Iraq war, of course, but everything I found seemed to be exaggerated along with the rhetoric accompanying it. And doesn’t anybody care about the Haitian war (or whatever it was) which seemed at the time to be a rather bumbling affair. I got the idea then that it would have been better to set up each Haitian with an annuity fund of $20,000. I think they could live on that there and saved our military from having to leave defeated having accomplished nothing.
If anybody runs across this post, where could you get this kind of information?
LikeLike